March 15, 2006
I have yet to listen to the whole interview, however reader Anthony J. said that this is a must listen:
Former Iraqi General Georges Sada, who was a military adviser to Saddam Hussein appeared on The Mike Rosen Show (850 AM KOA).
General Georges Sada wrote about his tenure under Saddam in a book titled, “Saddam’s Secrets“:
Part 1 of the interview is here.
Part 2 is about bombing Israel.
Part 3 is about the WMD Saddam owned and where it went.
DOWNLOAD – .MP3
DOWNLOAD – .MP3
euphoricreality.net linked with Former Iraqi General: “Iraq Had WMDs!”...
Independent Conservative linked with 3 Years Later, Bush Has Saved Thousands of Iraqi Lives a Month!...
Rocket's Brain Trust linked with Iraqi Gen Sada interview on The Mike Rosen Show...
The Cigar Intelligence Agency linked with Thursday Roundup...
Iowa Voice linked with Former Iraqi General Tells Where WMD Went...
Amy Proctor linked with Media Ignores Bush Exoneration...
78 Responses to “MORE: Fmr. Saddam General Sada Talks About Attack Against Israel and Use of WMD”
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11:24 pm [ Quote ]
Don’t expect much coverage about this from the Lefty media.
11:30 pm [ Quote ]
Coverage of this book should be front page, headline, leading news. And yet the Left Media is completely ignoring it because it doesn’t fall in line with their anti-Bush agenda. How can anyone argue that there is no bias?
11:46 pm [ Quote ]
Good Stuff thanks for the information, this should be put Across the net!
11:52 pm [ Quote ]
Media Ignores Bush Exoneration…
The evidence on the tapes and documents cannot be denied, even by Bush hating Democrats. Oh, the evidence can and is being ignored, but not denied. Past statements that confirm the ongoing content released in these tapes are now validated:...
12:30 am [ Quote ]
This is must-know stuff. Everyone should definately listen to this.
12:36 am [ Quote ]
Huh. That’s funny. No smart – ass comments from the usual trolls.
Checkmate. See your kids at George W. Bush High School.
1:15 am [ Quote ]
They’ll be here. Give them time. My money’s on lightningbug or Walter.
1:32 am [ Quote ]
yep it might take them a day or two to get some amunition but he’s just trying to make some money off the book deal. Problem being he could most likely make more money giving up some of the “ghosts”, so to speak, unless he’s scared. This comment is purely speculation though.
1:38 am [ Quote ]
Ok, I listened to part 3 and did not hear a single word about WMD (except a reference to a previous part). Am I the first person who actually listened to the interview? FYI it is in part 2.
Frankly the only thing notable about part 3 is the failure of the US to close the borders which allowed terrorists to stream in and kill both innocent Iraqis and our US soldiers. Heck of a job, Dubya. That mistake cost 2000 US soldiers their lives.
Part 2: Yes Sadaam used chemical weapons against the Kurds and Iran. That was before 1991. The “planned” attack against Israel was also before 1991. From the interview it was less a planned attack and more understanding the ramifications of on attack.
“He had a very good organization for hiding chemical weapons” but there was no paper trail? How many months did the CIA spend in Iraq after the war piecing together the WMD activities and to come up with nothing? “Weapons of Mass Destruction Related Program Activities”? That sure was a convincing argument for war. Even by this General’s account, there were no WMD in Iraq when the US invaded. Great interview. It really adds validation to the motivations for going to war. Heck of a job Dubya.
Oh yes… and where is the evidence of this Generals statements? Not that his statements validate the war but even if what he says about the chemical weapons transport to Syria is correct, where is the evidence? I seem to remember the US had plenty of informants that seemed to know exactly where the WMD were located. Anybody remember a individual convicted of bank fraud in Jordan? What was his name… oh yes, Ahmed Chalabi. Going from convicted white collar criminal to Oil Minister of Iraq. I’d say that is upward mobility. Democracy is a great thing (unless you are a Palestinian).
I am frankly disappointed at how little critical thinking the peanut gallery uses on posts like this. Since when does being a Republican mean you have to turn off your critical thinking skills? If you don’t trust your government to handle your money (taxes), why do think they’ll do any better with your safety?
4:18 am [ Quote ]
Former Iraqi General Tells Where WMD Went…
Ian at Expose the Left has a three-part audio segment of former Iraqi General Georges Sada, author of “Saddam’s Secrets”.
Tony in Boulder sent me an email tip on this, as I haven’t listened to the audio (yet), saying:
Former Iraqi General Geo…
7:55 am [ Quote ]
As I said before, I will have to read the book and then decide. I refuse to download anything from this site – I just happened upon it via a link on the drudge report.
Apparently, someone writes a book, and as long as they say what you want to hear, their word is accepted as gospel. That’s sad. Maybe you should read “Impostor” by Bruce Bartlett (a conservative), but I am sure it has already been banned from all of your “must read” lists.
The bottom line is, you can come on here and say all of the nasty things you want to about me and the others who disagree with you, but we are never going to change each other’s minds. We may never know the whole truth about anything. I don’t hate Bush – I think he is merely a pawn for the extreme evangelical christian conservative right. He’s just a dumb fake cowboy who is surrounded by some very evil people. Truth is, I don’t trust any politician, and ultra liberals disturb me just as much as ultra conservatives. It would be nice if everyone could be a little more moderate and try to get along, and realize that we all make mistakes, but I don’t think that will happen in my lifetime.
So, I hope all of you have nice lives. I’ve got things to do and places to see. Go ahead and rip me apart if it makes you feel better about yourselves, but don’t put anymore money on me, Seth, because you won’t be hearing from me again.
8:37 am [ Quote ]
“Apparently, someone writes a book, and as long as they say what you want to hear, their word is accepted as gospel. That’s sad.”
Sad? I’ll tell you what’s sad: people who get their news after the truth has been carefully strained out of it by the Left Stream Media. They have meticulously ignored every person who disagrees with them, and refused to let them tell their story. Georges Sada was a general and one of Saddam’s advisers. For you to write him off because you don’t believe what he’s saying is what’s sad. He knows more about pre-liberation Iraq than any politician, reporter, or even intelligence agent. Do read the book, if you have the courage to see the truth.
9:17 am [ Quote ]
I am a refugee from the Democratic Party. The Dem’s have no plan to protect America. Does a Dem appearance on television ever not involve whining about the GOP? Hey Dem’s tell me what YOU will do for America!
How could the Democratic Party put themselves in a position gloat and prosper if America loses the war in Iraq? What a disgrace!
9:45 am [ Quote ]
It’s simple. You can either choose to believe the media (in its many forms) on the matter of pre-war Iraq, or you can choose to believe an Iraqi General.
I’ve already seen our medai in action. Constantly showing an ugly bias and even forging documents to prove a point.
The Iraqi General desearves a look, at that point you can choose whether or not he holds any water, and whether or not you believe him more than the media.
10:00 am [ Quote ]
The New York Times reports that the Dutch government has decided to upgrade the compulsory “cultural integration? exams prospective immigrants have to take before obtaining a visa to the country of Erasmus…in order to “filter away all unwanted religiously conservative individuals?
“A lesson, about the Netherlands’ nude beaches, is followed by another: homosexuals have the same rights here as heterosexuals do, including the chance to marry.
Just to make sure everyone gets the message, two men are shown kissing in a meadow.
The scenes are brief parts of a two-hour-long film that the Dutch government has compiled to help potential immigrants, many of them from Islamic countries, meet the demands of a new entrance examination that went into effect on Wednesday
?
Or course citizen of certain countries with high numbers of “religious conservatives? such as Israel and the US are exempted from taking the exam…but the Dutch government wants us to believe this shouldn’t be interpreted as blatantly racist double-standard directed at Arabs and Mohammedans!
But there’s even worse that sheer racism at work here: ironically, by focusing its message on nude beaches, swingers clubs, hash bars…etc. the Dutch government is contributing to the distortion and debasement of Western culture in the eyes of its critics, thus reinforcing their prejudices.
Just like their Neocon friends in Washington and Tel-Aviv, the Muslim-bashers of Amsterdam and The Hague are useful idiots feeding the anti-Western narrative of Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Al-Zawahiri.
Instead of promoting humanistic and secular values by building schools and universities with modernist secular curricula in the Middle-East and South Asia, instead of telling prospective immigrants the world over that Europe is a beacon of humanism and democracy, we’re content with provoking Muslims gratuitously.
In Hitler’s Germany, Jehovah’s Witnesses were forced to accept blood transfusion and force-fed ham so they could become “good Germans?.
In Guantanomo’s prisons, Arab and Muslim detainees were routinely forced to watch gay porn movies while listening to the Israeli national anthem
I guess this must have paved the way for the Dutch government’s new immigration law…
10:31 am [ Quote ]
Walter, why do you demand links in other threads and then run from them to a new thread and totally ignore the links… Now you’re running from this one too? I suspect you knew I was coming to bust you because I provided you 7 or 8 links (only a sampling) in the last post on this same subject after you whined about me not supporting my claims (that were common knowledge to anyone who’s not a liberal with their fingers in their ears screaming “NO WMDS!”). What do you have to say for all those links. What are you afraid of? You’re pathetic. You insist that I provide the links, I do and you just ignore them and run. Well in case you happen to grow a pair and come back… my links are all waitin’ for you over here:
http://exposetheleft.com/2006/03/15/sada-interview/#comments
moving on…
I refuse to download anything from this site
Why exactly to you “refuse”? Are you protesting it or something? I don’t understand what purpose “not downloading” serves… Particularly if you’re going to bloviate on a number of different posts, you could at least watch the videos and listen to the audio. I suppose that despite being direct recordings, there’s some sort of vast right wing conspiracy with subliminal messages to make you vote for Bush, right?
Apparently, someone writes a book, and as long as they say what you want to hear, their word is accepted as gospel.
Again, who’s saying it’s gospel… but couple it with other evidence that continues to pile up and it seems more and more likely. What about those who believe Saddam didn’t have WMDs. That’s the position that requires “faith” more than anything, unless you believe that Saddam was the good guy all along and got rid of the stuff (we know he had and used) on his own.
Again, see all my links for more supporting evidence.. I won’t hold my breath though… you’re weak and you’ve been weak since you got here. As I told you before, get back to Freshman political science for today’s screening of Fahrenheit 9/11. No one will challenge idiocy there.
10:39 am [ Quote ]
Apparently, someone writes a book, and as long as they say what you want to hear, their word is accepted as gospel.
And on that note, which party did Farenheit 9/11 cater to again?
Just checking.
I’m also wondering why it’s wrong to come to a site / blog that caters to the right-wing point of view and argue with liberals (who are here, why?).
As for you leaving; I’ll hold you to your word. I’ve been trying to get an intelligent lib to get here for a while now (and even if he doesn’t drop by, we have debates regularly over AIM anyway) anyway, so I don’t think you’ll be terribly missed.
That’s all from me, since everyone else seems to have taken the rest of your argument and responded to it already. No need to re-post something that’s already been said.
10:58 am [ Quote ]
I’ll read the book. But if there is definitive evidence, where’s the full-court press from the administration and the pundits and everyone else who doesn’t want to think they were wrong?
11:14 am [ Quote ]
Pathetic, this is the regime that killed this and butchered that but as soon as one of them can be used for your party look good now all of a sudden this book is a must read
It contains crucial evidence to the location of wmds? So let me get this straight, for all the intelligence and agencies and contacts internationally, it takes a book to give the location of the wmds, the main reason we went to war? Perfect logic.
What is this, the conservative version of farrenheit 9/11? Im sorry I had to say that. Some of these blogs sound as happy as the liberals when F. 9/11 came out.
Here’s some advice, instead of begging the question of why liberals are not paying attention, contact the administration and give them the news. Im pretty sure they are still searching for the wmds as well as bin laden and they will find them…any year now.
11:48 am [ Quote ]
Heck I can tell you where the WMD’s are, they are buried in Syria. I didnt even need the book to tell you that. In fact, BEFORE the war we were warned that trucks and planes were flying into Syria from Iraq. These books are just confirming what we already knew.
When Syria falls and we search the underground bunkers that they built within the past 5 years, a ton of people are going to be eating crow.
12:08 pm [ Quote ]
There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. If you read the other book – the one which describes the defence of Baghdad, Sadam’s general’s were surprised to hear that there were no WMDs.
The generals had counted on stockpiles. Not only did Sadam fool the west, he fooled his own general staff.
So it is unsurprising to me to read that this military adviser to Sadam was also fooled.
12:35 pm [ Quote ]
Yeah, I mean they found some old chemical warheads from 20 years ago! What more proof do you lefties need! We need to listen to these Iraqi generals and take them at their word. Screw the Duelfer report! Those guys were just “scientists” who keep preaching about global warming and stuff.
12:39 pm [ Quote ]
yeah, they found chemical warheads from 20 years ago. What more proof do the moonbats need! We should take the good general at his word. The “scientists’ who did the Duelfer report, are the same guys preaching about “global warming”, for chrissake!
12:57 pm [ Quote ]
“There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. If you read the other book – the one which describes the defence of Baghdad, Sadam’s general’s were surprised to hear that there were no WMDs.”
Never ceases to amaze me how one lefty apparently knows more than the US intelligence agencies, the British intelligence agencies, and a former Iraqi general on the matter.
As for theLeak:
I will once again describe what “proving a point” entails.
See, now if an insider from the group of people you’re opposing comes out and admits things that support your claims, you’re /supposed/ to use it as this novel thing called “evidence”. That’s a term tha means you actually have stuff to back up any claims you make.
1:50 pm [ Quote ]
Thursday Roundup…
Just a quick dash through the blogrolls this morning turned up these goodies: Passionate America reports on Justice Souter getting a little taste of his own medicine, eminent domain-wise. Matt, the Martini Pundit has fun with a couple of LA…...
1:57 pm [ Quote ]
for all those who keep accusing conservatives of putting all of our eggs in Sada’s basket… STFU. You know that’s not true, but it’s your easy hit and run.
As I laid out in 7 or 8 links (which were only a fraction of what’s out there) in a previous thread there are Americans, Syrians, and Iraqis from U.S. military to Syrian journalists to former regime people all saying the same things.. We have captured documents showing that Saddam purchased the stuff as recently as 2000… Russian papers reporting that the Saddam bought WMDs from Russia and moved them to Syria, it goes on and on and on…. You guys can say we’re all hanging on this Sada thing, but far from it. In fact I don’t even know exactly what Sada has said, but it seems to only be piling on to what we do already know.
http://exposetheleft.com/2006/03/15/sada-interview/#comments
2:03 pm [ Quote ]
What we are seeing now is exactly what we seen after the Cold
War with the Verona Cables. All the truth is starting to come out. The Saddam documents are being released to the blogosphere which is a great idea. I thought it would take decades but the real truth (and vindication) of the pro-war stance will be confirmed. But like after the Cold War, the MSM will yawn and move on to the next subject.
3:01 pm [ Quote ]
IF there were any evidence to his claims that Saddam transfered WMDs to Syria right before the war, than the Bush admin would be the first to hold a press conference and present it.
This guy is certainly interesting to look at, and while what he says is plausible, without evidence it doesn’t mean much. And really, if the WMDs are in Syria why aren’t we doing anything. Why isn’t Israel doing anything? If Syria all of sudden came into possesion of Iraq’s WMDs, Israel would be far more concerned about those weapons going into the hands of terrorists. So even if we assume that his story is 100% true, then why the heck is Bush not doing anything about the Syrian WMDs? You think Syria is less likely to give them to terrorists?
3:09 pm [ Quote ]
Interesting comments and faith in eventual exposure, yet on todays wires – “Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein pretended to have chemical weapons because, among other reasons, he feared that Israel might attack if it discovered he did not. This is revealed in a recently declassified internal report by the American military.”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/694668.html
For every argument in favor of WMD there is one equally against it, all apparently supported with “documentary evidence” and claims by “people who were there”.
What is disappointing is people’s absolute adamant belief one way or the other when essentially the jury is still out and probably will be for many years to come. I suggest we ALL need to read more on the other side rather than simply come on here and make ridiculous statements like “I don’t need to read any of your BS because I know the truth already”.
Rational thought is actually something this country sorely needs more of on both sides of the political fence.
3:16 pm [ Quote ]
Wow, so if Saddam fooled everyone in the world, including those in the field, how exactly do you handle that?
If that’s the case, Bush did the right thing then, wouldnt you say? The rest of your complaint after that is armchair quarterbacking which is exactly the thing we DONT need with Iran and North Korea.
3:17 pm [ Quote ]
Victor if you ever get the chance, catch me on AIM sometime. SN is the same as the name I use here (*exactly* the same).
Got something to ask you.
3:24 pm [ Quote ]
What is disappointing is people’s absolute adamant belief one way or the other when essentially the jury is still out and probably will be for many years to come.
Vic, the problem is that we’d be able to accept that if it weren’t that the Democrats (who spent over a decade making a stronger WMD case than Bush) call him a liar and the media pushes that message as well, and never quotes these same Dems or Clinton who launched strikes on Iraq for the same reasons, even made regime change our policy and explained why them and not other WMD countries… (how many times must I repeat that?)
That’s the problem.. We could say, “let’s let the information roll it over the next few years or decades”... but when your side plays politics with the war in such an unprecedented and disgusting way, what are we supposed to do? Polls show that people believe Bush mislead, but we never see a poll where they show people that the world and the Democrats agreed up until we didn’t find the stuff and show them all the evidence that they were moved and then ask the question.
Many of us see Republicans staying in power as completely necessary for our safety, it’s life and death, but we have to put up with Democrats calling the Presidetn a liar and the media aiding them in their campaign and the un-and-misinformed public buying in to it.
That is why we can’t just say “well, we’ll see who was right in a few years”... You get your people to be honest and stop playing politics and cop to their own quotes and maybe we can talk… but we know that’s never going to happen.
3:51 pm [ Quote ]
That just doesn’t make sense! I would suggest you are so biased that you are incapable of rational thought…
4:21 pm [ Quote ]
24SethWynd, so exactly when are you going to be proving a point? Ok so the general of the opposing party is outing his ex boss. Im sorry but I’d think I’d rather hear confirmation from somebody of the U.S. intelligence branch instead of one of Saddams ex-generals. Now if he said there were none, I would hear the same argument I’m making. Don’t be so readily to agree with this man just because you expect wmd to be hidden.
Bottom line, we have occupied that country for about 3 years. I expected that we should at least have some kind of clue of the wmds whereabouts because they’re still out there if they’re any.
4:26 pm [ Quote ]
Well in that case, I point you towards the links to the videos that [I believe] Randy linked to a few posts back.
http://blogs.pajamasmedia.com/wmd_files/2007/02/interview_bill_tierney.php
And this is an entire country we’re talking about. Plenty of desert, plenty of caves, etc. How can you say “we should have found them all if they even existed by now” when, to this day, we’re /still/ discovering mass graves? If we haven’t found all of those yet, don’t you think it’s a little ridiculous to expect WMDs be found in that time period?
And that’s only going on the assumption that they were hidden in Iraq, rather than shipped off to Syria as pre-war intel suggested.
5:26 pm [ Quote ]
“WASHINGTON – Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein pretended to have chemical weapons because, among other reasons, he feared that Israel might attack if it discovered he did not. This is revealed in a recently declassified internal report by the American military. The report was compiled from many dozens of interviews with senior Iraqi officials and hundreds of documents captured by the American forces during and after the war.
The report details Hussein’s reasons for deciding to continue deceiving the international community into thinking that Iraq had WMD, despite the fact that such deception could increase the chances of a military attack on the country.
Hussein’s deputy Tariq Aziz told interrogators, “The people in the military industrial commission were liars. They lied to you, and they lied to Hussein. They were always saying they were producing special weapons.”
Many in Israeli intelligence still believe Hussein had chemical weapons, which were transferred to Syria before the war. Israel discussed this with the Americans, but the latter no longer believe that Israeli evidence is conclusive on the matter.
The report also describes how unprepared Iraq was for the American invasion. Many of its commanders were unsuitable, appointed for political reasons, including Hussein’s son. In addition, the militias Hussein formed to protect his regime were not trained professionally.?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/694668.html
Fear not, people…the truth is out there, but not on this site.
5:29 pm [ Quote ]
The left stream media will finally get it when there is a smoldering crater where the NY Times bldg used to be. Our enemies don’t give a rat’s ass whether or not our press likes or hates the president. They will kill you regardless.
6:11 pm [ Quote ]
sadly GBAA is right….
As for The Leak:
I’d think I’d rather hear confirmation from somebody of the U.S. intelligence branch instead of one of Saddams ex-generals.
In addition to the Tierney stuff that Seth linked to, there’s this guy
David Gaubatz, a former member of the Air Force’s Office of Special Investigations, was assigned to the Talill Air Base in Nasiriyah at the launch of Operation Iraqi Freedom. His job was to pick up any intelligence on the whereabouts of senior Baathists and weapons of mass destruction and then send the information to the American weapons inspectors gathering in Baghdad that would later become the Iraq Survey Group.
http://www.nysun.com/article/27183
Read that, it’s gotten virtually no mention anywhere.
6:12 pm [ Quote ]
Of course there’s this reproduced WAPO article
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=10547
excerpt:
“Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, said vehicle traffic photographed by U.S. spy satellites indicated that material and documents related to the arms programs were shipped to Syria.”
6:13 pm [ Quote ]
should I go on (again), The Leak?
6:54 pm [ Quote ]
Here’s a shocking dose of the truth:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/694668.html
7:03 pm [ Quote ]
not that I buy the “Saddam tricked his own people by saying he had WMD because he wanted to scare neighboring countries so he wouldn’t be attacked”, but that would only still make the justification for war… well… justified. If Saddam’s closest people believed he had the stuff, why wouldn’t we?
Again, I don’t buy that whole thing anyway.. and it ain’t news, we’ve been hearing that for a couple of years now.
To assume that is the case is to assume that somehow Saddam chose to do the right thing and get rid of the stuff on his own anyway… What reason do we have to believe that? Again he had it because he used it, so who believes that he got rid of it on his own, seriously?
7:20 pm [ Quote ]
When will you wingnuts finally give up on the WMD’s? Seriously, you guys are starting to sound like those UFO dudes at Roswell. You’re starting to look downright foolish, with your Iraqi generals and conspiracy theories. It’s over, move on.
7:51 pm [ Quote ]
it’s based on the evidence of many people Kougar, not just Sada and you know it (or you choose not to)...
The bottom line is that you must believe Saddam is the good guy to believe he got rid of the stuff that we know he had and used, if you believe that they weren’t there.
Back in the real world, I provided a handful (but only a sampling) of links for evidence of WMDs being moved, etc. in this post (scroll down a ways, I give probably 7 or 8 links)
http://exposetheleft.com/2006/03/15/sada-interview/#comments
Again, that’s really just a fraction of it, but it’s enough to get your started. Though I realize you’re a liberal and incapable of honesty, so you won’t read them.
Conspiracy theories? I think that would be if we were to ignore decades of world intel pointing to WMDs and all your favorite Democrats making a stronger case since the early 90s up until the war started (until realizing that after not finding them they could call the President a liar for politic gain and the media would never hold them accountable for previous statements)
8:15 pm [ Quote ]
Randy: “To assume that is the case is to assume that somehow Saddam chose to do the right thing and get rid of the stuff on his own anyway… What reason do we have to believe that? Again he had it because he used it, so who believes that he got rid of it on his own, seriously?”
The assumption being made is that after Desert Storm his infrastructure was so badly damaged that along with economic sanctions he was financially unable to restart these programs, not that we are to believe he did the right thing as you say, and get rid of them.
I don’t think anyone in their right mind would believe that if he had them he volunarilty gave them up. There are 2 viable options – he had them and had them moved to foreign shores, or he didn’t have them. We have been in Iraq for almost 4 years now, when we launched the ground offensives no WMD’s were used on US or coalition forces. To date, apart from a few aged warheads and a few ‘expired’ shells that were effectively unusable, little has been found to support the claim he possessed them. ‘Reports’ and ‘claims’ are all good and well, but until we find some cold hard evidence one way or the other, it’s easier for the general public in this country to believe now that he had none.
The longer this situation continues, the lower the President’s figures will go and the more people will claim that he lied, it’s as simple as that. It’s a situation you can bet that if there were evidence to prove beyond all reasonable doubt they existed or were shipped to another country, the administration would want it in the public forum, consequences be damned.
8:57 pm [ Quote ]
As I mentioned previously, even if WMDs were moved to Syria, what are our leaders doing now about it? So we’re fine with Syria having all of Saddam’s WMDs? This is the number one reason why I doubt this theory.
If in fact, we had evidence that this was the case, Scottie would be the first to parade it in front of the press and prove once and for all that we were right about the War. Also, we’d be planning to at least do something about Syria, whether diplomatically or militarily in order to have it give up Saddam’s WMDs.
None of these things have happend.
9:22 pm [ Quote ]
So for starters, you libs are saying you refuse to look at those links and read the less covered stories?
he was financially unable to restart these programs
You’re kidding me right? Ever heard of Oil-for-Food? You do realize how filthy rich Saddam was when we invaded don’t you? Have you seen this palaces.. I just am at a loss for words at how stupid that is… That’s.. just ridiculous..
The longer this situation continues, the lower the President’s figures will go and the more people will claim that he lied, it’s as simple as that.
And you’re okay with that? Despite over a decade of Democrats making the same argument, often with stronger arguments and claims of intel, not to mention the rest of the world.. And again, here’s Clinton before striking Iraq in 1998 based on the inspection process not working. He mentions regime change which he had just made US policy, and he explains why them and not others.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/
As for finding the stuff in Syria, I hope we’ve got covert groups rounding the stuff up there, and not talking about it because they don’t want to show their cards while they connect dots.
As for administration not touting information. Again, some are making the case that the information stands to embarass our “ally” Russia, so we won’t reveal it because we need their help on Iran. I hope not. Screw Russia…
Sorry, got distracted when someone came in the door and now I lost my train of thought… Whatever
9:29 pm [ Quote ]
Not one liberal posting here gives any credibility whatsoever to General Sada’s report, even though he was there and he witnessed WMD’s be taken to Syria. Sada is a damnable liar and Sadam has all the credibility, right comrades?
Only a moron would believe Saddam did not have WMD’s: (1) he used them on his own people. (2) Virtually every intelligence agency in the world absolutely believed Saddam still had them just before the start of the war. Even our bitter enemy France believed he had them and they should know, they sold a lot of the technology to Saddam. (3) Many direct witnesses, including General Sada said he had them. There is even mounting evidence of his pursuit of nuclear weapons technology.
But, as I said – to the liberals Saddam didn’t really ever have them or use them, all the world’s intelligence agencies were wrong, even the liberals best friends the French were wrong, a top Iraqi Air Force General and a Christian was wrong. But, Saddam was the real good guy in this entire matter. Poor bastard! He should be immediately returned to power, the United States and Britain should apologize to him and pay trillions to Saddam in reparations; and we should all sit around Capital Hill and let Kennedy and Hillary lead us in singing Kumbaya!
9:42 pm [ Quote ]
“I hope we’ve got covert groups rounding the stuff up there, and not talking about it because they don’t want to show their cards while they connect dots.”
haha, that’s gotta be one of the funniest things I’ve heard today. I too hope that every morning I wake up in a pile of money. But alas, no cigar!
But I do agree with your screw Russia statement. I have nothing against Russians, but those people are so beaten down they’ve given up on trying to make their government actually represent the people. Putin is one of the most evil and selfish human beings in existance.
9:56 pm [ Quote ]
Umm, the question is not whether Saddam had or used WMDs. We know that, we still have the receipts from the 80s after all. Rummsfeld or Wolfowitz would be so much more credible if they had made a fuss when he used them, but instead they shaked his hand and allowed for chemical components to be sold to Saddam for production of “fertilizers”. Yeah right.
The question is, was Saddam a threat that could not be contained. That is where the difference of opinion lies. Judging by the “WMDs” that have been found so far, he was not a threat. If the Syrian transfer did occur, that’d change the story, but I’ll believe it when I see evidence about it, not just when someone who says they saw it says so.
10:03 pm [ Quote ]
I’ve got to take issue with the assertion that “the rest of the world” thought Saddam had WMD’s. For one, many of our allies did not think the evidence was persuasive enough to go to war. Number two, many of our allied intelligence agencies disputed claims that we were making publicly about his purported programs (ie. aluminum tubes, mobile bio labs, etc.) Our government made assertions sourced by drunk cousins of Chalabi (curveball). It’s ironic that the BND ( German intelligence) told us were crazuy for using that shit at the UN. It is simply overly simplistic that the rest of the world thought he had WMD’s. They suspected, but were not convinced of the extent or nature (ie.nuclear) http://tinyurl.com/m45af
10:10 pm [ Quote ]
Um said (sarcastically)” He should be immediately returned to power” meaning Saddam. You know what? Not a bad idea. It is precisely that ruthlessness that actually maintains stability in that part of the world. Why does anyone in here give a shit about Iraqis all of a sudden? We have our own security and prosperity to worry about. Liberal democracy is not a default condition in the Arab world. That ignorant neocon theory has now been thoroughly debunked. Now we have a debacle in which 30K Iraqis are dead and we say “be democratic” . Bullshit, ain’t gonna happen, no matter what you wingnuts say.
11:15 pm [ Quote ]
Judging by the “WMDs? that have been found so far, he was not a threat.
Should we have taken that chance? After 9/11? Based on the intelligence that almost the entire world agreed on (to some degree Kougar.. they may not have wanted war, but no one was saying he didn’t have anything, they just kept wanting “more time” for the inspectors… time was up) Based on decades of our own intel. For the millionth friggin’ time, Dems had been making a stronger WMD argument for over a decade. FACT! I’ll wait to hear you call them liars.
By the way kougar, that article was very weak. I was at least expecting to see a country totally dismissing our claims about WMDs… There is a lot of “not totally convinced” with certain parts of things presented to them… And wtf do we care about that anyway? Russia may have transported the WMDs for Iraq (according to a number of reports) and they may have even sold Iraq some of the WMDs in 99 and 2000 (really getting sick and tired of digging links for you guys, they’re here or linked to other places I linked to them here).... And let’s not even get in to Oil-For-Food countries who were desperate for us not to find out about that… I know you lefties aren’t that familiar with Oil-for-Food because your media continues to ignore it, but it’s just the biggest scandal in the history of the planet with all your European buddies involved.
9:24 am [ Quote ]
had Saddam used WMD’s on our troops that would have been the clear end of Saddam’s Iraq. At that point it would have been proven he had lied to the entire world for 14 years.
That was never going to be an option. Saddam believed his best bet was to count on the French, Germans, and Russians to foil the US attack in the UN, which they did. I would imagine that had the United States not attacked, the next step would have been for Saddam to have the sanctions raised. Once that was done, the programs could easily be restarted, and Iraq could begin to build its military for the next assault on wherever. I would have to imagine it would also begin (or continue) an alliance with any terrorist group that would want a host.
11:21 am [ Quote ]
Randy said “And wtf do we care about that anyway?”. See, it’s precisely that attitude in our government that will hurt us in the long run. We’re trying to make amends, but we have no credibility and we pissed all of our friends off. As for the article being weak, it’s not black and white like all wingnuts see the world. It just shows that the intelligence was outdated and unconvincing. And this whole business of Russia transporting WMD’s is right out of Roswell/Illuminati/Trilateral Commission conspriacy wetdream. Digging up a million links from Newsmax/Fox news/Frontpage magazine/Weekly standard are not objective sources of information. You’re starting to sound like one of those creationists? Or maybe you are one, sorry.
12:37 pm [ Quote ]
Randy, try this Google search:
“new york times” “oil for food scandal”
Result: 146000 links
“fox news” “oil for food scandal”
Result: 99800 links
DAMN THAT MAIN STREAM MEDIA! HAHA!
12:40 pm [ Quote ]
Kougar: Why in this discussion did you find it necessary to attack Christians, in your reference to creationists. This topic had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity – NOTHING whatsover!
But typical of the majority of liberals and democrats – you exposed your anti-Christ bias and hatred of all things Christian. So, why do you have any credibility when we know you are an atheist?
Randy: Despite Comrade Krougar’s nonsense, your post #53 was excellent. It is comforting to know others are more interested in the truth and facts versus leftist “moonbat” partisan remarks of people like Herr Krougar!
12:51 pm [ Quote ]
And this whole business of Russia transporting WMD’s is right out of Roswell/Illuminati/Trilateral Commission conspriacy wetdream.
um, my sources weren’t all from those dude…. Does the Washington Times fall in to those categories?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm
12:51 pm [ Quote ]
how ‘bout this russian paper
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/76255-1/
12:52 pm [ Quote ]
or the NY Sun
http://www.nysun.com/article/27183
12:57 pm [ Quote ]
Randy, try this Google search:
“new york times? “oil for food scandal?
Result: 146000 links
“fox news? “oil for food scandal?
Result: 99800 links
That is the biggest bunch of nonsense.. That means nothing. What if 145000 of those links are to blogs bitching about the NY Times lack of coverage of oil for food? What are you 5 years old? NOT ALL OF THOSE ARE NY TIMES LINKS GENIUS!
It is known that the NY Times, along with the rest of the media tried really hard to ignore the oil for food scandal for a long time, but was eventually dragged kicking and screaming to being forced to cover it. Whatever, that’s a pointless side issue. It’s a known fact, and your little search is ridiculous and proves absolutely nothing.
3:26 pm [ Quote ]
Ok Randy, try this:
“oil for food scandal”
site:bbc.co.uk
Result: 613
“oil for food scandal” site:cnn.com
Result: 443
“oil for food scandal” site:foxnews.com
Result: 197
“oil for food scandal” site:washingtonpost.com
Result: 196
“oil for food scandal”
site:nytimes.com
Result: 176
“oil for food scandal”
site:npr.org
Result: 136
Fox News has less than half the number of articles on the scandal compared against CNN. CNN has 125% more coverage of the scandal than Fox News! Care to retract your statement about the “Main Stream Media” ignoring the story?
That’s right Randy, The Washington Post had nearly an identical number of articles on the scandal. Another Main Stream Media outlet that was ignoring the scandal.
The truth hurts, doesn’t it.
4:07 pm [ Quote ]
You’re missing the point big time genius…
The simple mention of a keyword, causing it to be reflected in search results, doen’t mean the article is all about the scandal… Many of these are transcripts of briefings, etc. anyway and just happen to contain that term.. but again, it doesn’t mean it’s all about that.
ALL OF THAT is completely irrelevent though. Where’s the coverage on the primetime shows? Where’s the coverage on the big 3 networks?
Even that is all irrelevant to the point that Fox News has been and remains out front of the Oil-For-Food scandal.
By the way, do you know anything about search engines? How they’re crawled by robots, how they index?
Try the same things through Yahoo… Fox News is over 800, CNN over 1000, and bbc in the 400s. Need I go on?
By the way, are you aware that a UN article about Kofi Annan may mention in passing something like “Secretary General of the UN, has recently had to deal with scandals like Oil for Food and the raping of little girls in Africa…”
The article may never mention it again.. These searches aren’t a measurement of coverage by any means! So your little experiment is completely pointless.
Back to reality we know that it was weeks (maybe months? does anyone remember for sure, please let me know) that the NY Times and most of the MSM wouldn’t report on the story while Fox News and the blogs and a few others were.
Anyway, if you want to have your little search experiment destroyed further, I’m happy to do it… I’ve only scratched the surface of how many holes it has in it, how pointless it is, and how inaccurate of a representation it is of anything.
4:37 pm [ Quote ]
Reverend Um,
It’s interesting that any mention of fundamentalist ideology really yanks your tail. My comment about creationists has nothing to do with Christianity (of which I am adherent). Off the wall interpretation of reality (ie.literalism, rapture theology, etc.) is the parallel I see with many right wing thinkers when it comes to this WMD thing. Taking tiny bits of unsourced or dubiously sourced material to make a case for something that has never been found is what I find fascinating. It’s also interesting that you refer to me variously as comrade and “Herr” as if I’m some communist or Nazi is just so typical of the wingnuts. This is not about ideology so much as blind faith in Dear Leader Bush, justifying everything he’s done and ignoring real facts. Sorry if you got mad, though, Reverend.
4:55 pm [ Quote ]
Randy, the difference between you and my is I can give evidence to support my statements. You cannot.
The truth is there but you only see what you want to see.
Give me EVIDENCE that the “MSM” was not reporting the scandal while Fox News and a few others were. I have given you evidence that CNN has 125% MORE ARTICLES mentioning the scandal than Fox News. I’d say that is good evidence that it was covered quite well in the “MSM”.
You want to dispute that those articles are actually about the scandal? Fine! Bring your evidence. Tell me how many articles are not about the scandal (but include that phrase “oil for food scandal”).
EVIDENCE PLEASE!
I thought conservatives deal with facts, not emotion. So show some backbone Randy and put up some facts! Stop running away from the point.
As for primetime shows? I don’t know Randy, show me your evidence about how many television shows in the “MSM” cover the scandal. Then show me your evidence about how many television shows outside the “MSM” cover the scandal. I don’t watch TV Randy. So give me all you got!
And I must defer to your knowledge about how search engines work. Tell me Randy, how do they work and how is this relevant to the discussion?
Even in your example of Yahoo, CNN has more items then Fox News regarding the scandal. Isn’t CNN a “MSM” news outlet Randy? Again, weren’t you trying to prove the point that the MSM was not covering the scandal? Or am I missing something?
Randy, I would LOVE to have my experiment can be destroyed. But frankly, I would rather just see your evidence that the MSM is ignoring the scandal.
Evidence Randy. You can produce evidence for your statements, can’t you?
5:06 pm [ Quote ]
Kougar:
Taking tiny bits of unsourced or dubiously sourced material to make a case for something
I know you’re not talking to me but I have to take issue with that considering I’ve given you at least 7 or 8 links and have plenty more that aren’t… not a bunch of dubiously sourced information. Oh yeah, I forgot if it doesn’t suit your agenda, it’s dubiously sourced.
blind faith in Dear Leader Bush,
last I checked he’s accepted the “bad intel” belief, and doesn’t try to maintain that the WMDs existed. We aren’t following him, we’re following what seems obvious to us.
5:36 pm [ Quote ]
I think people like TruthInAdvertising are pathetic.
You ask the same guy if “deep throat” was a viable news story… see what he says.
At least General Sada has the strength to come forward and use his name.
Where is the proof that Sada is a liar? Well??? Oh… you’ve got NOTHING.
No… guys like TruthInAdvertising just want to badmouth anyone who has backbone, probably due to their own lack of one.
To anyone who hasn’t read General Sada’s book, it may be a little difficult because the language he uses is very cyclical. Then again, his native language is the same that was spoken when Christ walked the earth. Back then people used to repeat themselves a lot because books were not common and the oral tradition was full of repetition to avoid any parts of a story from being lost on the audience. It carried over into the book a little. Otherwise this is a story of a true patriot and soldier. He reminded me of an Iraqi “Pappy” Boyington, and certainly made me want to know more about his accusations of WMDs
5:40 pm [ Quote ]
Reread previous comment TruthInAdverstising, you’ve got nothing…
And I must defer to your knowledge about how search engines work. Tell me Randy, how do they work and how is this relevant to the discussion?
ARE YOU THAT RETARDED? How is it relevant?! Your whole claim is based on search results
The way search engines work and index and return results is the most important thing! Which is why I explained THE FACT (I know how you love those) the huge difference just by searching Yahoo!
The simple fact that Yahoo! and Googles number of search results differs so greatly is enough to destroy your whole premise.
But to go further (which I already did), articles mixed in with hundreds of thousands of others, that simply mention a specific keyword mean nothing.
I think the MSM is a far cry from pages buried in the web site of a news company.
I don’t know what to say other than read my previous comment. And stfu about “facts” you provided irrelevant search results. And the fact is anyway, even if Fox had none and CNN had a million, it doesn’t matter when they aren’t given the biggest scandal in the planet’s history, headline coverage.
There isn’t a way to document this, but when Fox was first breaking the story open in the early days you wouldn’t have known there was even a story out there if you had looked that the NY Times. They simply weren’t covering it.
I think Fox hasn’t been on top if as much as they once were, but it’s because there isn’t any “explosive” new news out of it. There are constantly small developments of course, but the point was they were out front of the story, while others tried to ignore it until they couldn’t anymore.
I’m sorry I don’t remember the specific dates from past years when all the FNC shows were leading with the story and O’Reilly and others wondered when the NY Times and others would realize how huge it was and do at least one story on it. You can choose to accept what is known or not, but there isn’t a way to prove that…
But back to your ridiculous search engine game… Aside from the fact that it’s not a valid argument (for the reasons already listed), you’d also need to prove that all of the sites you listed save static pages at the same rate, and don’t delete expired old pages at certain times. You’d need to be sure that they all pick up AP/Reuters/etc. wire stories the same way (which they don’t)...
You can believe what you want to believe, but I’m simply relying on my memory that Fox News chided the rest of the media for virtually ignoring the story while they were covering extremely heavy in the early days and weeks.
You, ridiculously, think that some search result number means anything even though I’ve already given you a handful of reasons it doesn’t wash.. and there are dozens more.. It’s just simply stupid. I’ve tried to give you examples but for some reason Ian’s spam filter is eatting up my commments now… this one may or may not make it through so I’m going to end it now..
5:46 pm [ Quote ]
If all the information being posted here is 100% verifiable and beyond reproach, than I wouldn’t blame the MSM, but the Bush administration.
Why hasn’t the Bush administration held a press conference and laid everyting on the line. They could show the satelite images of material being transported between Iraq and Syria, display the papers showing Saddam was trying to purchase WMD from Russia, bring out the Iraqi General who has first hand knowledge of a reltaionship between OBL and Saddam. They could also have the Iraqi scientists, and David Gaubatz speak about their findings.
But for some reason the Bush administratiion isn’t interested in the truth comming out, as is the WSJ, Fox news, and Worldnetdaily. In fact the only pople who seem to be telling this story are conservative bloggers who are no different than Kos, America blog, and the Democratic Underground.
My guess is the Bush administration knows none of these individuals stories would hold out under intense scrutiny and they would look even more fooolish for giving these people’s arguments any credence.
So it’s left to far-right blogs like pajamas media to beat the conspiracy drum as to why the MSM including Fox, the WSJ, Worldnet daily and the Bush administraion aren’t interested in providing proof as to why the US went to war.
5:52 pm [ Quote ]
Exactly, like Hoekstra, they give out unverfied documents to the right-wing blogosphere and hope that our Keyboard Commandos will do their intelligence analysis for them. I love it!
6:13 pm [ Quote ]
Randy, you give so many arguments but so little evidence. I thought conservatives like facts. The truth will set you free.
I gave you my evidence. You don’t like it? Then find your own evidence that the MSM is ignoring the scandal. Again, remember you said that the MSM was IGNORING. I don’t think over 400 articles on cnn.com is what I would call ignoring. 125% more than Fox News! If you assume search engines have fake results, prove why CNN has more 125% more fakes results thean Fox News!
Stop being so emotional and give me hard facts Randy.
6:20 pm [ Quote ]
“You ask the same guy if “deep throat? was a viable news story… see what he says.”
Excuse me? Where there’s smoke there will be fire. Deep Throat certainly pointed W&B in the right direction but the evidence just kept on coming and the Watergate scandal just kept on unfolding. In General Sada’s case, the evidence just is not there. The CIA spent how long looking and didn’t come up with support for his statements? Do you think the CIA did not interview Sada in the 3 years since the invasion?
Brad, what is your explanation of why we had to read about these covert flights in a book? Is the MSM covering up the CIA reports that corroborate this?
I remember before the invasion we had great evidence about trailers used for biological weapons, phantom ships travelling the oceans with WMD stockpiles, perimeters around Baghdad which would trigger chemical weapons attacks. None of these things have been proven by any evidence after three years of the US being in Iraq.
12:44 am [ Quote ]
Iraqi Gen Sada interview on The Mike Rosen Show…
HT Expose the Left via Tony in Colorado
The rescheduled interview with Iraqi Gen Sada, Saddam’s Secrets by Mike Rosen aired on March 14th, 2006.
Ian Schwartz at ‘Expose The Left’ has posted audio of the
BEST inter…...
5:42 pm [ Quote ]
I am sorry to say Truth, but what Randy is trying to point out to you is your argument is not entirely credible. I am a client server analyst and I deal strictly with computers and servers and how they operate with one another. I have a graduate degree in Information Technology with 8 years of background to support my knowledge, so I am not a novice. I do have to make this “disclaimer?… I stated the information above to give me credibility – not to start an “I’m smarter than you? war. That is not my intent, I am merely trying to explain Randy’s point as to why he’s saying what he’s saying to you.
What Randy is saying is this…
Search engines like Google, Yahoo, CNN, etc… use (what is termed) a spider to “crawl? or look for web pages containing your keywords. When a web SITE is found containing the words or phraseology you specified, it will pull up the “LINK? to those “WEB PAGES?. Every link listed (or totaled / numbered as you stated) will not be 100% news – meaning every link listed will not be a news story about your specific subject matter. The various links will be a mixture of news stories, web logs, chat forums and the like.
Take for example… If you were to do a search again for “Oil for Food? in Google, if you continued to look through every single link, you would eventually come to this very location. Why? Because in your comments, Randy’s comments and now mine, the words “Oil for Food? will be found and this link will be pulled. This is not a news story “covering? that scandal but a forum discussing different matters. It just so happened to be pulled because the words “Oil for Food? are within the context of the messages.
This is why Randy is so adamant about your argument not being viable.
6:55 pm [ Quote ]
3 Years Later, Bush Has Saved Thousands of Iraqi Lives a Month!...
Did you know that far less Iraqis are dying in Iraq now than back in 1998? And I’m not even talking about all the people Saddam would kill. Just those numbers alone are higher than the current death rate in Iraq. I’m talking about the 4…
11:41 pm [ Quote ]
I have no problem debating search engine results but that is not the point. Unless you provide evidence that the CNN site has 125% more non-news related stories than the Fox News site (or create a new search that removes forum postings) I think my evidence holds up just fine.
If Randy were to give evidence for his argument I would think that would be useful if he wanted convince anyone that he is right. Wouldn’t you agree?
Once he has provided evidence we can debate the weight to give to each other’s evidence. With no evidence from Randy, I don’t think there’s much of a debate here. I tend to see that alot from posters on this blog. Maybe the topics posted just attract that type of person.
8:15 pm [ Quote ]
FalseInAdvertising
I responded to you quite a few times on this, but the comments were messed up… I’m way past this now, but you can continue to whine if you’d like. The fact is, I’ve already explained why your little theory is totally ridiculous and irrelant. You have no concept of how search engines work, and regardless articles on a web site isn’t the MSM, the mainstream media/mass media that we see on the evening news or on the headlines… Whatever, like I said this is pointless and old now, and I already wasted enough time responding before when the comments weren’t working so they just never showed up (other threads too)
4:42 pm [ Quote ]
Former Iraqi General: “Iraq Had WMDs!”...
General Georges Sada served under Saddam Hussein, and was the second highest ranking air force officer. The author of Saddam’s Secrets, he has emphatically declared that Iraq did indeed have WMDs, which were moved to Syria before the beginni…